Overcoming Follow-Up Fears to Boost Business Success with Wanda Allen

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Welcome back to another episode of Rattle Radio. I'm your host, cara Steinman, and I have my friend Wanda Allen with me today. Hi, wanda, hi, cara, good to be here, glad you could make it. We're going to talk today about something that affects all service entrepreneurs' sales, and specifically one part of sales that Wanda has isolated and found solutions to help with. That's the follow-up part. Wanda, would you just share a little bit about yourself and maybe tell everybody what you do?

Yeah, I'm a speaker and a coach and I also do some corporate work. Everything I do is centered around helping everyone. I can improve their follow-up skills. When you learn how to master this skill, business is so much easier to get and you don't have to work as hard.

Like what if that is the magic ingredient that we're all missing?

It is because research tells us that only 2% of sales are made on the first contact. That means 98% of the time that's nothing. Yeah, 98% of the time. I mean you think about that. How many times have you met a prospect and they said, yes, on the spot, I'll do it. What happens next to never. What that means is 98% of the time you have to follow up. It just pains me because people work so hard on lead generation whether they're networking or cold calling or door knocking, however, they're getting their leads. That's where the lion's share of the effort goes, but so little effort goes into the follow-up. That lead generation doesn't bring you business. It's very important work. It plants a seed, but follow-up is what brings the business in. That is the missing piece. There's a. In general, people really struggle with follow-up for a variety of reasons. If you can get on top of it, like I say, you're going to get a lot more business.

I love this perspective because I talked to a lot of women entrepreneurs and I was a service entrepreneur for a long time too and it was terrible at following up. I could pinpoint a few different reasons, but I'm curious in your experience, what have you seen as the primary reasons why it's so hard for us to follow up?

The number one reason issue barrier is mindset. The mindset isn't right and the biggest problem with mindset is fears. There's so many fears associated with the following up Fear of being uncomfortable it's uncomfortable work for a lot of people. Fear of being pushy I hear that one all the time. If I keep following up, I feel like I'm being pushy. Fear of not knowing what to say. Fear of rejection. Fear of appearing desperate for business If I keep following up, they're going to think I'm desperate. These are just some of the common fears that really impair people in taking the action they need to take, because the fear is on top of them. Rather than getting on the fear, I am not suggesting that you don't have the fear. To not have fear would not be human. What I'm suggesting is please don't let it be on top of you. You want to be in control of that fear. You can put it down to its size that will enable you to take the necessary action. That's going to get you the business you want and that's what gets you to your dreams and your vision and your goal. It's all about sales.

That's a hard thing for me to imagine, just being in control of the fear, because it's one thing to say let's be in control of the fear, but I'm sitting here thinking, okay, I'm going to follow up with somebody who wants to buy something for me. I really don't want to seem pushy. I don't want to feel pushy. I've always loved inbound for that reason, because you just put a bunch of content out there and make it available for people to opt in and then nurture, nurture, nurture in a very passive way. Sometimes that doesn't work, especially now that things are so busy and cluttered online.

Yeah, so I'll give so the the how you get on top of the fear is by shifting the mindset. So the fear of I feel like I'm being pushy, or I don't want to come across as being pushy. Well, if your job is to bring in sales, then your job is to follow up, and so what you're really doing is you're pursuing that prospect and you're showing an interest in them. I know everyone listening today knows they will make a difference in that prospect's business or life with the product or service they sell. And to not follow up is not only doing a disservice to the salesperson but it's doing a huge disservice to the prospect because you're not giving them the opportunity to do business with you. So when you have to follow up, come from a place of service rather than making the sale. When you come from the place of service, it is about the prospect. When you come from the place of making the sale, it's about you, and that's where it can get heavy and uncomfortable. So just really shifting the mindset. I'm not being pushy, I'm doing my job, I'm showing interest, I want to give them the opportunity to experience my product or service so I can make a difference in their life or business.

Sounds like a reframing is an order. So maybe instead of thinking about it as what you're saying is, instead of thinking about it as chasing someone down to make the sale, think about them as a person who has a problem and you are connected with them because they have a problem you probably can solve. And if you're involved in a business or you run a business where you have integrity and you know that you have a high quality solution that solves a problem for someone, you're just making that connection to see if your solution, make sure your solution, is the right one for their problem. And it really kind of seems like a disservice if you don't follow up, because then that potential relationship is just kind of hanging out in the ether somewhere. And if your solution doesn't turn out to be the right solution like if you don't have enough information or you haven't had the rest of the conversation to find out then the right solution is hanging out somewhere that they're not getting.

No, no, and you also. What happens is when you talk to that prospect once, maybe twice, research tells us 90% of people quit after two follow-ups, and I think that's a very accurate statistic. So what you're doing is you're prepping that prospect with what you do and all the information, and then, if you don't follow up, you have prepped them for somebody else who does what you do.

Oh no, Don't like that.

No, you're doing your competition's work. So another way to look at it this can help with the reframing is if you are talking to a prospect, let's say that prospect. Let me reword that. Let's say a prospect is talking to two people that do the same thing. One person follows up twice and never. The prospect never hears from them again. The other one is consistently following up as many times as necessary and when you're following up your goal is to get to a yes or a no. Obviously you want the yes, but you want closure. It's a yes or a no. So if one only follows up twice and the other one's consistently following up with who's the prospect more impressed with? Who's the prospect going to trust more? Which salesperson is making a better impression? So there's this misconception that following up can be unprofessional because it's pushy. When it's the complete opposite, following up is actually professional and you're going to make a far greater impression, which increases your likelihood significantly of getting the business. And that's how you develop trust with the prospect, because for the most part, you typically don't know your prospects. They're generally new connections for the most part. So in any relationship, for any relationship to work, you have to have trust and you start building that trust by following up when you should and or when you said you would, and that's the one that wins.

Yeah, and you know where we all get this idea that we don't want to be pushy is because we've had somebody be pushy, right or aggressive. So what do you think are some best practices? If we say, okay, we're going to change our mindset, we're going to reframe the way we think about following up so that we can get our heads wrapped around doing this thing, because we have to just do it right, what are some best practices for following up? How often In my head I'm still like how soon is too soon?

Yeah well, I teach a whole system for that, which I don't have time to go into here. However, I can give you some good pieces of information, so obvious. Then, first and foremost thing is you have to ask the right questions, so meaning you have to ask the next step question. Don't be afraid to do that, because when you do that, you know exactly what you need to do and when you need to do it. So, if you know, just think of about it as conversing, having really productive conversation, because what so happens so often? The salesperson meets with the prospect, gives them the information and the prospect says, okay, well, thanks for the information. The salesperson says, okay, well, thank you for your time. And they leave in the salesperson's scratch in their head Well, now what?

You know, I don't know what to do.

Well, it's because there's been no next step questions. You know, if they're not making their decision that day, would it be okay if I followed up? When would be a good time, so that you know? You know we're under a huge project right now. I'm gonna need probably a month. Why don't you follow up with me in a month? Great, you know exactly when to follow up then. So that is first and foremost. You must ask the next step questions. Don't be afraid. It makes you're leaving a great impression. It shows that you have initiative. It shows that you're interested. We'd like that. We'd like somebody who's doing their job, don't we? Who wants to help us? Who wants to help us? Yes, and so you don't ever. Here's another thing that will support the action of getting this work done is always remember it is never, ever the prospect's job to follow up with you, ever. It is always your job. Even if a prospect says, oh, I'll let you know, oftentimes they don't, more times than what they don't. You can't rely on them. Okay, you just can't. And so you always want to have that initiative, take that initiative. You always want that ball in your court so that you are in control and you're the one driving the sales process with their input and their permission and their timing, but you're the one that's taking the necessary steps to get to a yes or a no.

I can see how this would be really challenging, even knowing that, if your mindset wasn't in the right place with it. Because you're going to, your subconscious is going to protect you from anything uncomfortable, which is by you're going to forget to put it in your CRM, you're going to maybe not even use a CRM and you're just going to. It's just going to not happen because it's uncomfortable. And we don't most of us, unless we're really conscientious and disciplined don't really do things that make us uncomfortable if we can avoid it.

Yes, and this is the thing is that follow up is a habit, that's all it is. Using your CRM is a habit, so you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. Only, it's only temporary. Being disciplined is only temporary, because people will say I'm just not a disciplined person. Well, you don't have to be disciplined when something's a habit. You just have to be disciplined long enough for it to become a habit. But what happens with so many people is when they are trying to form a new habit, regardless of what it is working out three days a week or following up, it doesn't matter. The minute they hit discomfort, they say I'm out, I'm going back to where I'm comfortable, regardless of how chaotic or dysfunctional it is. That's how crazy. We are right, yeah, but so it's. It's just recognizing it. The pain isn't informing the new habit. You know what the pain is. It's in the resistance. That's where it is. So just be aware this these are just resisting thoughts that are trying to lure me back to my comfort zone. But I can't grow, do better, be better, get bigger if I'm in my comfort zone. So it's self-talk as well.

I'm thinking about habits right now, as you're talking about this, and how, like, if you can get to the point where it's a habit like every morning I get up and I boil water for my tea and Occasionally, on the weekend, when we sleep later or something's like, we, something's out of order, we'll forget to boil a tea and my husband, I'll be standing there, kitchen, kitchen, like Something's not quite right. Oh, we forgot to put the tea on. So, like, eventually, you could even get to the point where you're uncomfortable because you haven't done your follow-up, because it's your. It's satisfying when you have a habit and you get to do that thing.

Absolutely. I guarantee you, when you develop this habit, you will never not go a day without doing it, because it will be so uncomfortable. It will become a part of who you are and how you do business, and It'd be like I relate it to not checking your email or voicemail or text messages. It would be very uncomfortable because that's just a habit, regardless of how busy you are, regardless of what else is going on, and you can get follow-up to that point when you want to really take in. Okay, this is the only way I'm gonna increase my sales is, you know, to really get to where I want to be is To follow up. So this is a must-have habit be you know, be kind to yourself when you're nobody's perfect forming habits. If we were all perfect out the gate, we would all be amazing, but you know it just it's. It takes practice and time and patience and understanding, but also you got to stick to it, stick with it and be committed to it. You know, even if you slip, you get back on the horse.

Do you think, as women, we have a harder time with the follow-up?

Yes, I do. It seems like it would. Yeah, men's struggle Just equally, as equally as women, but for men are not as fearful we are. You know, women in general we don't want to be that pushy person, we want to be nice, you know, we want to give them their space in their room. That that's just kind of how we're inherently wired, but, and that deepens the fears. But yeah, I think it is harder because we have more of a tendency to want to be liked, you know, and we have this in our mind that well, they're not gonna like me if I come across this way, when really all you're doing is coming across professionally. That's all you're doing. So what I say is be respectful and be professional and you will never be pushy. They don't fit together. So make professional and respectful your mantra.

Sounds like You're saying we really should be using a CRM too, like if we're not using a CRM, that's a problem.

Oh, huge problem. Huge it is. If you're not using the CRM, the follow-up Process is so much more difficult. You're just, you're slipping and sliding all over the place and when you're using it, the CRM, that's like the mothership of everything you know and that's what keeps you on top of everything that needs to get done. It is, I'm telling you, a CRM is a life-changer, and that just sounds so dramatic, but I'm really mean it. It will change your life Because you will close more cells, you will have stronger relationships and businesses about relationships. Things will not slip through the cracks and your stress level is going to lower. When all of that happens, your life changes. That is how much power a CRM has. It is so important Because if you're not using a CRM, you're using what I call just all these other nonsense, non CRM ways pen and paper, sticky notes, your memory bank, your phone, your email, I mean and and what I know is most people use not just one of those, several of them and it's just. For chaos and inefficiencies, and that's where's, that's what wears people out. People are tired. Today, you know, they're just so busy and go in a hundred miles and a hundred different directions, and that's why bringing order, an Organization, to this part of business is just so crucial.

You're a systems gal, so this is kind of your jam, you're, you're. I can see how, if we didn't have a CRM, it would be really nice to want to put a system together, but it wouldn't be repped like repeatable. We wouldn't be able to stick to it or Make it work for us. How did you, where did you come from in your background, that brought you to the place today where you're so passionate about this and and Just so knowledgeable about why it doesn't work and how to fix it?

Yeah. So I had a very successful 25 year corporate career and I was a business banker and I spent the lion's share before I got into sales. I in at the bank. I spent the lion's share my career managing SBA departments stands for small business administration and their loans and I managed departments. I did a hundred million plus an annual loan volume, and SBA loans are loaded with rules and regulations and I was in charge of massive departments and I developed a skill for creating systems. That was the only way I could stay on top of it everything. And so when I went into sales and I studied the sales process and I realized how critical follow-up is, I'm like how do you stay on top of it? Well, I fell back on my skill of creating systems and so I developed that. I mean, I developed these systems that I teach at probably 15, 16 years ago. So when I left the bank, the bank I was working for was acquired. I was a senior vice president. We were not the lead bank and you know how that story ends and a friend of mine said you should go and speak and coach on how you follow up, and I I thought that was crazy because one I knew nothing about speaking and coaching, but bigger than that was. I didn't know I was doing anything that out of the ordinary and so I thought what the heck, what do I have to lose? So I went out on a wing and a prayer and I started speaking and I learned very quickly. Okay, people really struggle here. So I thought you know, there's something, there's something here. That was 12 years ago and here I sit today.

That's how you know when you're in in a spot where you're doing something that is your subconscious no, is it unconscious competence? Where you're doing something that is so natural to you that you don't even know you're doing it and you forget, like you don't even realize, that everybody else struggles with it.

Yes, yeah, and I, you know I'll have people say, oh my gosh, wanda, that's exactly how I feel. Or have you been following me? Or have you been talking to my boss or my husband? No, I, I've been on the other side because I struggle. I didn't come out the gate in the cells and just start soaring. I struggled and then I said this isn't working, this, it can't be this way. So what am I going to do? That's when I started studying and realized how follow up is, so I know what it's like on the other side, and that feeds my passion for helping people, because it doesn't have to be that way and it doesn't work and it's going to wear you out. So what do?

you do. How do you help people in your, in your coaching programs and you have a. Do you have a formula or kind of a framework?

Yeah, so I teach. I have a group coaching program and I have. It consists of eight group calls and in there the eight, what I call the eight common pitfalls. And so you know, I teach systems for how to get out of those pitfalls. And you know, for example, a call is how to follow up when you're being ignored. That's where a lot of people stumble. How do you consistently stay in touch? What do you say? I have whole call and scripting. I devote an entire call on CRM because that is so crucial, you know. So that's sampling of some of the calls, A network business card buildup. I've declared that epidemic in the business world because it is Business card buildup. Yeah, you know other people's business cards sitting on your desk, absolutely nothing with. So you know I teach how to clear that and be purposeful when you're networking for follow up. You know so, for effective follow up. And yeah, that's so. Those are the eight calls, or the eight problem areas where most people struggle. So that's how my I call that my entry level, my first level program, but we really get to the heart of the matter and the issues.

How often do you find that on the other end of this, someone's business has bloomed? Oh yeah, do you see sales skyrocket after going through your system?

Yes, yes, definitely my most recent one, which was probably about six months ago after finishing my program. She got 22 new clients in the first month after my program 22. Now that may sound because I had. I was being interviewed recently and somebody said, oh my gosh, but how could you handle that much more business? She was working so much smarter, she wasn't working as hard, she had the room for it because she had. She had systems in place and she was successful before she came into my program. But she was scattered, things were slipping through the cracks, she was losing business, she was stressed out and you can be successful, but in that way, that's where it's so exhausting and so that's. But yeah, I've had many. I've had people be in the midst of my program like, oh my gosh. My favorite music to my ears is oh my gosh, it really works, I know it really.

You're like I know that's why we're here, that's. I totally can see how that would be. I was what. I'm a person who's sort of like fly by the seat of my pants and I've never really gotten in the habit of using a CRM until last year and it's and it's like I use it for my task management and it's a CRM as part of it, but it has taken so much clutter out of my head that I feel like I feel like I can get twice as much done Just because it's not floating around in my head kind of like nagging at me.

Yeah, yeah, and that's gonna lower your stress. Our brains were not designed to be a CRM and when you're carrying all that around and I guarantee you you're gonna forget about things and then you're going oh my gosh, I can't believe I forgot to do that, or you'll wake up at three in the morning and you know and that is stressful, it is so. So you're dumped. You've dumped what you've been carrying around with you mentally into your CRM.

How good for your nervous system is that?

You were seriously and your health, just general health, it's not good. And so something as simple as a CRM, that you know. The CRM is the foundation. That's the foundation of your business, of your business, because that's what houses everything that needs to get done. That's what houses your relationships, your prospects, your referral sources. That's it, right there. You have any favorites I have. So people always wanna know what I use, and it's a funny name, it's called less annoying. Really, and to be totally transparent, I'm an affiliate with them. I can pass on to you my affiliate link. If you use it, you get 60 free days. Yeah, I don't care if you use less annoying or not. What I care about is that you get a CRM that you like, because if you like it, you're gonna use it. So Pipe Drive is another good one, hubspot, zoho, insightly I mean. There's hundreds and hundreds of CRMs out there, but those are a few that I recommend.

You like less annoying? That's really funny. Now I wanna go to their website and just see, like, what their shtick is.

Yeah, it's great that name catches. Yeah, it's definitely a.

I can just see these people sitting around trying to put their CRM together, like we need to create something that's less annoying.

Yes, well, it's so funny if I call them, and I'll just do it as a joke and say, oh my God, that was so annoying. This is a joke, you know, because that is what they don't wanna be. But yeah, it's a great, it's a really great program.

Oh, it's funny, I haven't heard of that one, yeah. Well, if anybody listening to this wants to learn more about you or connect with you. I know you have a one hour ticket, complimentary ticket to a one hour virtual workshop. That you do. Is that right? Yes, yeah.

So they can go to my website, followupsalesstrategiescom. And it's a complimentary, as you said, one hour workshop and I talk about how to easily I'm gonna show you how to easily use a CRM for followup purposes. I don't care what CRM it is. I really get into time management because the number one reason why people say they can't get their followup work done is because they don't have the time. And I have to debunk that because it's not about the time and you have to carve a lane for the work that's going to bring you more sales. So I really dive into time management and then I teach a system, like you know, because people say, oh, what is she talking about these systems? And so I'm gonna. I teach a system. It's called the daily followup action plan, you know, just to get a flavor for what one looks like. Yeah, I love that.

I love that you've mentioned time too, because we all feel so much so often like we are in a dev time deficit and we just don't have enough of it. But the truth is we make time for things that are important, right, and we have to prioritize the things that are most. That will give us the most ROI in our business, and maybe posting that post or writing that blog that day isn't as important as following up with the three people who could actually pump money into your business Exactly.

And that's, you know, this whole time thing. I don't have enough time. Usually what happens, like you said, the time's there, but the time has been wasted on low priority busy work. Why? Because that's a comfortable work, but it's not the work that moves, as you just said. It doesn't move the needle forward in your business. The typically uncomfortable work does, but that's got to get done first before anything else gets done, because otherwise you're just you're going to be short on time. So you waste the day on busy, comfortable work. And then it's five o'clock. Well, I didn't have time to do my followup work. No, that's really wasn't the case.

You wasted, you had it just never ceases to amaze me how much of this whole business thing is mindset.

It's actually mindset Like it is, and that's why I always start there first, Cause I could teach you the best systems on the planet. But if your mindset isn't right, isn't set, it's going to be a slippery slope.

And that's flexible. We can change that right.

Oh, yes, absolutely. And the more you do it it's like anything the more you follow up, the more comfortable it's going to get, the thicker your skin is going to get. View it as a muscle. Okay, try the better you get at it right, exactly, exactly, and that's because it's a habit. I love that.

So let's all get better at this follow up thing. Let's commit to it today and if anybody wants to check out, that complimentary ticket to the workshop sounds like a good value. I'm going to put that link in the show notes. And did you say you're on LinkedIn? Do you want people to connect with you on LinkedIn? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, okay, so we'll put your LinkedIn in there, in addition, also with your website and all that good stuff. So, thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge with us today.

Thank you, it was great. I love the conversation.

We'll talk soon. And there you have it Another inspiring conversation with another amazing woman entrepreneur. Before you go, a heartfelt thank you for being part of the Ravel family. Your support means the world and if you like what you heard, please consider giving your fellow entrepreneur a virtual hug by sharing this episode on social or with a friend. See you next time.